ForgeHub puts it's money (non-disclosed amount, roughly 'not much') and reputation (quite good actually) on the line in this pre-review of the upcoming Legendary Map Pack consisting of Ghost Town, Avalanche and Blackout. Staunch ally and loyalist member Poztar stepped up with a series of breathtakingly obvious questions and our long in the tooth members did the hard work and tried to make things interesting with their thoughts and opinions. Read on for possible enlightenment.
No, we haven't played them.
What's your opinion on Ghost Town? Do you think it will play well?
Shock Theta: Actually I'm looking forward to it a lot. Most people I've discussed it with seem to be less enthusiastic, but I think people are going to slowly realise that this is a great map. I'm really looking forward to some tactical team SWAT. Of course the remakes are going to attract most of the attention initially, most likely to the point of Ghost Town being disregarded.
Orangeremi: It is the only real new map - it should be interesting. Playing on it in MM or just some customs ought to be some fun. New gameplay ;]
Penguinish: Ghost town is new, but judging by the screens it looks like a nice BR start map.
Klink285: Well like the other orange-texted-person said, it's the only new map. Looking at the overhead view, it seems like the weapon layout will make for some very interesting conflicts. It looks like a nice non-symmetrical map, but I wonder why the lower left corner of the overhead seems so blank...
Mike N ACE 92: I think Ghost Town will play similar to Sanctuary/Warlock. It gives me the same feeling as the two classic Halo 2 maps.
L0N3 S0LD13R: Well, it really depends on the gametype. I'm thinking an assault/CTF gametype will be really fun. But I think it will play not so good on slayer and oddball.
Insane54: Ghost Town to me looks like a map that will play well, personally. Looking at the screenshots and the weapon placement it seems to be well balanced for the most part. It looks great for asymmetric games like One Bomb or One Flag...or Hot Potato...
How about aesthetics?
Shock: I think it's good looking enough. The pictures don't show off much of the map, and I think it'll play out larger than it looks. I've been told it won't be used much for machinima, which confuses me because I would have thought it would fill in as an extension for shots of High Ground quite well, but I guess we'll see.
Orng: It seems to fit in with the Sierra 117 campaign sections and I think it'll be nice. Gotta love that forest-y feel. (I mean, just like Guardian!)
Peng: Ghost Town looks nothing like a town. It looks like a beaten down facility. But overall it looks nice, I’m sure the foliage will be rather impressive and this will be the first MM map with breakable glass! :O
Klink: It looks like a very pretty map, with the feel of the campaign missions Sierra 117 and maybe a bit of Tsavo Highway. I like the jungle theme, along with the nicely rendered ruined buildings.
Mike: As stated above, the aesthetics remind me of Sanctuary. I like the "jungle" feel there is to it.
L0N3: One word. Beautiful. Sierra 117 was, in my opinion, one of the best looking campaign maps. I'm hoping the inner base (at the center) will look nice. The jungle atmosphere will play well, the semi-wreckage looks amazing.
Ins54: It looks a lot like a COD4 map, which I consider a good thing. Kinda reminds me of the first level of Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, too. It looks like it has lots of subtle details that are missing in other Halo maps. I'm not sure if it will fit in with the other graphics from Halo, but I trust Bungie has done it right...hopefully. Or not...
Do you think it'll be a good forging map?
Shock: That's difficult to tell. It obviously depends on what they give us to work with, but assuming we have some immovable objects I can see a few maps coming out of here. I'd like to see the whole map, use the high places on top of the buildings and in the rafters of the abandoned building and hopefully glitch out somewhere.
Orng: Ehh.. probably the best, if not Blackout. I really hope that Bungie planned to include opening and closing doors, I am starting to not think the rumors were true... I'd have to say this be the 2nd best for forging, really, but Sidewinder and Lockout took my own and many others' hearts, so it's is not my favorite.
Peng: I'm not sure what forging items will be available on this map, but my guess is that forge creations on this map are going to be similar if not greater to those on Rat's Nest.
Klink: I think because of the layout it might constrain certain forging possibilities, but open up many more. Who knows what zany creations may be conceived - it also looks like it has race track potential.
Mike: I honestly do not think it will be a good map to Forge on seeing as it is an outdoor map with good aesthetics.
L0N3: Well, I'm sure you'll get sick of hearing this, but it depends on the materials given to you. I'm anticipating what new forge objects Bungie will give us. I already have one or two map ideas in my head, look for them soon! (/self advertisement)
Ins54: No, it looks like these details will mess up any possible Forge stuff, but you never know.
What do you think about Avalanche?
Shock: I'm glad it's back and can't wait to play it. I think I'm going to have to create a Halo CE gametype though.
Orng: Really, this map reminds me of Sidewinder, EXACTLY. It also proves the theory that Bungie has replaced teleporters with mancannons. I am saddened that the took out the back halls though.. =[
Peng: Big. Snowy. Grande. I need a warthog.
Klink: I absolutely love it. My first start to halo was Halo: Combat Evolved for the mac, so I grew up with and fell in love with maps like Sidewinder, Infinity and Death Island. Sadly, those last two are owned by gearbox... but the point is I love big maps. Bungie has taken a classic map of theirs and made it 10x better. Taking out the teleporters though? It definitely will change game play drastically, along with the removal of the back halls.
Mike: I am really excited to see Sidewinder coming back, better than before. I always was a fan of Sidewinder on Halo: Combat Evolved. Good times, good times...
L0N3: Looks pretty snowy. And from where I live, I don't see too much snow. I think it'll keep the rabid fans of Bungie's back for a week, at least. The objective gametypes will be terrific. The first two maps seem pretty objective heavy to me.
Ins54: I think there was a vital need to add more BTB to the rotation of the current Halo maps. I was expecting a huge vehicle map before Halo 3 even came out, but I didn't think it would come in the form of a re-make.
How good does it look as compared to it's counterpart Sidewinder?
Shock: It looks better of course, being a generation ahead. It's undergone alot of changes though, especially if you know the original. The bases remind me heavily of Containment, and in fact, the whole map seems remarkably similar as a result. I'm sure that's not the case.
Orng: It looks really, the same. Mancannons sticking out though, so it looks weird. And the new forerunner structures look better now, and they have removed the ladders. Still no back hallways.. =[
Peng: Well from the one comparison screenshot I seen, its pretty spot on. Admittedly I only played it once or twice on Halo PC, with tremendous lag. However, Avalanche looks amazing compared to the colorless sidewinder.
Klink: It looks beautiful. Halo: CE or PC didn't have the strongest graphics, but Bungie really seemed to put real effort into the graphics here. For some reason, it reminds me of Ice Fields from Halo PC.
Mike: I first thought it was a completely new map when I saw it... The only similarities I can tell are that both maps are the same "U-Shaped" design.
L0N3: Well, we're talking about a H1 map. If you compare Zanzibar to Last Resort, you see so many advancements in the graphics, from Xbox to Xbox 360. I hope the snow graphics look nice, like Snowbound.
Ins54: It looks epic 1337 winzs4uc3, l0l.
Forgewise, do you think it'll be helpful?
Shock: Outside, perhaps not. If we have a good forge palette, maybe. Again, I'd like to see if you can get out. Inside the bases I'm sure it looks perfect for some close quarters forging. If we have to go old school, well, we'll just have to polish off our old school forging skills.
Orng: Not too much. I can see some minigames being made on here, such as vehicles on the slippery ice or maybe some vehicle Conquest, but besides that, I'll stick to Foundry (and hopefully Blackout).
Peng: I fear forging on this map will have the same results as Sandtrap...
Klink: Definitely. It's so massive, I can't help but wonder what kind of insane symmetrical games, or even just aesthetic creations, can be made. Unfortunately, its size might just be its downfall with people treating it like the new Sandtrap.
Mike: I think it will compare to Standoff, Forgewise. I do not feel this will be a good "Forgable" map
L0N3: Not really. I don't see to many things I could do with this map. It feels like a High Ground sort of map, it ends up just being the default with some geometry changes. Maybe some new items?
Ins54: Um, I can see maybe a lot of minigames in the middle, considering I also expect large versions of boxes, so we can see more of those kinds of games showing up more on this, but I don't expect anything much more than that.
Did you like the Halo 1 original, Sidewinder?
Shock: Too right I did. I once played it LAN, first to 250 kills. 1v1.
Orng: Loved it (and the back halls =[) but Avalanche brings out the vehicle side of, which is simply awesome. I mean, the banshee is totally gonna own the hornet, but hey, think of it like Warthog v Ghost. And you gotta love the Covenant v Human on the asymmetrical types. It seems like this map will not be too good for forge, but we needed another BTB map, and this is perfect. My favorite map of the map pack.
Peng: It was fun, even with the lag. Frozen lake ftw.
Klink: Oh, I didn't see this question. I loved it. This may have changed many of the basics of sidewinder, but it's not going to be Avalanche to Sidewinder as Guardian was to Lockout. Speaking of which...
Mike: I always did love Sidewinder. Me and my friends played Halo: Combat Evolved endlessly on two maps; Sidewinder and Boarding Action
L0N3: Hmmm... I really don't know. I never played Halo 1 (gasp). I see many people like it, and I hope they didn't change it too much, because many players like the original so much.
Ins54: I wasn't much of a Halo 1 or 2 player, but I think I played it once or twice...it wasn't anything special then, but I think it was pretty good now that I look back on it.
Blackout is almost an exact remake of the Halo 2 map, Lockout. How do you feel about it?
Shock: Lockout was favourite map from Halo 2 and probably all of Halo. I'm very glad it's back, but at the same time it might just make me go back to Halo 2.
Orng: The scenery is different, and in my opinion, fail. And some jumps are missing, as well as some weapons. Might as well call it Failout.
Peng: I feel excited, Lockout was one of the maps I spent most of my time in halo 2 on, and it was also the map, I begged for it to appear in matchmaking. Excuse me, I need some towels to clean up my mess.
Klink: That's a good thing. It was regarded as many to be one of the best multiplayer maps ever. Slight changes won't matter in the end.
Mike: I just hope it will be as good as Lockout from Halo 2, or better.
L0N3: I LOVED Lockout. My favorite H2 map. I played on local only, because I did not have Live. The only game I played on it was BTB. 16 players on Lockout sucks. I'm sure you can understand. But I played all week on vacation recently, so I've gotten it down pat on the geometry and such.
Ins54: It looks awesome. Looks like just the map that I can hide in a corner and get a few assassinations and let the rest of my team actually get + K/D spreads, instead of me dying over and over. Awesome. And at least I can jump, so I might have some advantages over other people to negate the difference in our look sensitivities (yes, my sensitivity is 1, shut up...).
Do you think the new look will be a nice change?
Shock: I think so, and remaking Sidewinder would probably have stopped them releasing Blackout at the same time otherwise. The lighting looks fine for competitive play which is more important by far - especially on a map this suited to it - but there's a part of me that wants the darkness to be something you are fighting against. Or at least an option to turn off the lights.
Orng: Definitely not. But the gameplay shouldn't be impacted. Still, its my Lockout/Failout.
Peng: Of course, I'm all in for a new environment - I cant wait to look at the sky! I also like the fact its in Antarctica, home of the penguins!
Klink: I love the new look. It maintains the icy feel of the original somewhat, but with a new night time theme and a "human" theme not seen in many of the maps.
Mike: Yes I'm a fan of the human themed maps.
L0N3: The new look could be tricky. It depends how dark it is. If it is too dark to see across the map, I will hate it. That would kill the point. WAY to easy to hide, and to snipe. It would keep your sniping spot encased in a black blanket. I wonder...
Ins54: It looks awesome with the lighting effects but I can only wonder how it looks in-game.
Will it be a good Forge map?
Shock: Well, in the first day of release there will be 100 'remakes' of Lockout on B.net. Other than that, they have hinted at an 'awesome new forge item' to paraphrase someone on the Bungie staff, but who knows what that might be? I'd put my money (a small amount mind you) on switch activated doors.
Orng: Apparently. Bungie says there are some pleasant surprises. It just matters, last time the surprise was a damn soccer ball. Give us operable doors or invisible boundaries. PLEASE!
Peng: It should be rather decent, its not going to be no foundry or anything, but should yield the same results and last resort if not better.
Klink: Eh, it's a bit too small... maybe for maps that just change around locations, not full-on creations that have become regarded as "the only kind of good forge maps."
Mike: I think this map will be a decent forgable map as it is "squared - looking", like Foundry.
L0N3: No. Was Guardian a good map to Forge on? I think that it will have that same effect, to small to do anything worth noting. But it depends what new items they give us.
Ins54: Maybe. Those platforms look flat, so it really only depends on what objects Bungie gives us.
Do you think we needed a Lockout remake or would some other map be better?
Shock: We needed it. It was the most requested, plus the small maps were crying out for help. That's where the action is, 4v4, and I'm glad they went and addressed it sooner rather than later.
Orng: No other map would be better, unless it was Lockout itself. Hopefully the best for forging, hopefully. My least favorite though. (I still love you Lockout/Failout!!)
Peng: I'm going to keep this short. I am damn proud to pay $10 for this map pack. Lockout with no doubt is a MAJOR reason halo 2's popularity lasted so long, Lockout displays many qualities in the perfect multiplayer map for any FPS regarding the engine the game is on. Bungie was dumb not to ship a Lockout remake with the game in the first place, and look at it now, COD4 has been number one for weeks. Bungie's playing it smart by pulling out their best weapon known to fans and casual players alike. I'm glad Blackout is the third map, any other map would of been a horrible mistake on Bungie's end. (I said I was keeping this part short! Ha!)
Klink: BLOODGULCHBLOODGULCHBLOODGULCHBLOODGULCHBLOODGULCH
Mike: I do not really think we needed a remake, but I am still glad to see it coming back. Guardian was an okay map and I enjoyed playing on it, but it made me miss Lockout even more.
L0N3: I am disappointed that we have to pay money for old maps. But because of my love for Lockout, I'll buy it anyway. Darn Bungie, and their awesome maps... But still, we could have had 1 remake, and still waited for one. I could've held off for new content...
Ins54: I think it wasn't necessarily needed, but more asked of. It seems everyone wanted a remake of Lockout and Sidewinder, so its great that now they did it, though I'd rather have the two spread out on different map packs, personally. A better map could have been asked, but I'm pretty happy with what we're getting now.
___________________________________________
What's your most wished-for Forge item for these new maps?
Shock: Situational lighting/sound effects.
Orng: I'd really like to see placeable Jack Blacks that are CPU controlled, and shoot at you. They even fly!
Peng: I'm not much of a forger so I cant say I really care.
Klink: I want more mechanics for gameplay. Invisible Boundaries! Switches! Etcetera!
Mike: I wanted to see a switched - activated door, that would come in handy for a big sized map.
L0N3: AI's. I really want to see these in forging! But that is very ludicrous. So my rational want, is a placeable gate system. Second, a box to set the measurements. I think that would make maps that much better.
Ins54: trigger_multiples. Basically, you can connect an area of maxs and mins to practically any object or target...its kind of hard to describe, but you can imagine them as switches that you can stand on, press use, shoot, whatever, to do the target that you specify. That means death barriers, operable doors, much better stuff for the most part. Also what would be cool would be a giant cookie.
Do you already have some Forging plans in mind?
Shock: Yes.
Orng: Well, I am gonna make some vehicle conquest and maybe a minigame on the ice. I am also gonna make a Lockout remake in the open space by Blackout. ;]
Peng: No not really, I plan on spending time in the DLC playlist owning bad kids on lockout.
Klink: Recreating Sidewinder on Avalanche exactly. I miss the teleporters.
Mike: Right now, I do not have any Forging plans in mind.
L0N3: I have a Conquest map planned on one. Keeping it a slight secret though.
Ins54: I have some ideas for Avalanche and a couple for Blackout and one for Ghost Town, but I'm keeping 'em secret 'til I get the maps.
Any last comments?
Shock: Nothing witty comes to mind.
Orng: Ehh, I've expressed enough. But, Avalanche and Ghost town are beautiful. Maybe not forge-wise, but gameplay-wise yes. But Blackout, just amazing that they have it. I am saddened though that there are two remakes in one map pack.
Peng: To all those bad kids complaining about Blackout being a remake, get over it, you're dumb for complaining about a great map that will be enjoyed by thousands upon its download release. Learn how to play some real slayer and you will see how damn good this map will be.
Klink: I'm pretty happy about these maps - then again people feel like they were let down by Standoff and Rat's Nest... let's just be hopefully optimistic. I think Avalanche will be a huge hit though. And really, is anything we say going to stop you from buying it? I'm getting it.
Mike: I am excited about this map pack. I feel I will be playing a lot more competitive games on Blackout now, rather than just playing casual games or forging.
L0N3: I think that fans will be happy, and that's all that matters.
Ins54: The cake is a lie the truth! NOOOooooooagkfld;fdm,hhkhmmmmmmmmm
But seriously, I think this update shouldn't be so negatively impacted by the fact that there are 2 old maps. Are each map worth $3.33? Definitely. And these 3 maps really were needed to fill up holes in the map rotation, so it just makes Matchmaking (which I haven't been to for months, but that's besides the point!) more fun.